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04 March 2011 @ 03:05 pm
Twilights Dawn  
Got it yday.. and read it all night and this morning..

I really honestly liked it.. a lot.. it was more of a 'gentle' reading then previous black jewel books.

I know 'gentle reading' prolly sounds weird.. but yea, that is how i 'felt' it.




This is what I took from the book as a first reading and is prolly differnt from most others.. and when I reread it.. my opinions may changes :P


Winsol Gifts

I loved how the relationship between Lucivar and Deamon come out.. I love knowing they can share a woman jointly between them as 'mother'.. and it makes since how Lucivar can actually love woman, after the way he was treated so many many many years.. Tersa laid a foundation in him.. and though memories may have been pushed far back..his mind still felt the love..

I dunno.. it was just..

i just..

loved that part.. i really did..

Shades of Honor
Reaminds me of many things today.. how some people cannot 'accept' change.. how they stay 'stuck' in what they believe to be right, not seeing how THEIR right way stomps on other peoples freedom. Falonar believed iin a Eyrien way that in many ways was messed up.. wasnt even the 'old way' of honor.. but he could never accept that.. in some ways he was in my opinion as tainted as Dorthea was.. he deserved what he got in a way, but i felt.. cheated too.. because i wanted him to really UNDERSTAND he was wrong.. and i dont think he ever did.. but then again, if he understood.. then he wouldnt have been as bad as he had become.. AND.. i liked how it put lucivar in a paternal standing with jillian.. and how other females would understand.. with lucivar ruling over them.. they were safe..

It also showed some lines with Deamon.. how he would not cross lines that belonged to his brother.. but... he wasnt afraid of drawing new lines.. that involved him.. especially where 'his' people are iinvolved.. THAT kind of honor and loyalty is something Falonar never really 'understood'.

Family
OK.. NOW I learned some things I did not understand befor, though I probably SHOULD have understood.. long lived races really do age/mature differently.. children remained children to adolesents for a 100 yrs or so.. wow huh?
I never 'understood' that.

And.. I never apreciated what it really meant for Saeton to be high lord of hell.. until this story.

Nor did I understand choices he had to make.. I think the 'dead' children would have broken me if I were there in reality.. yet somehow Sylvia and Seaton had the strenth to be what the children needed them to be in the end.. but ooooh the price..

And it showed how Sadiablo family took care of their own.. more so then other books showed.. Sylvia may have at one time been Seatons lover, and she was the queen of hallaway.. but in other situations no one would have gotten in the way of who got custody of her children.. but it was fitting that Deamon denied Sylvias father custodianship of her two boys.. and he and jaenelle oversaw the older boys growth into manhood and Tersa took in Mikal.. to be 'her boy' for reals..

I was also not stunned yet stunned.. by the power of Tersa.. I often now wonder.. just who is the most powerful.. Deamon... or Tersa?

and i think you know what i mean by 'powerful'.. it isnt often you read of Deamon being 'shaken' to the core of what he sees another do that is NOT jaenelle or his father.

The High Lord’s Daughter

Wow.. like Jaenelle yet.. unlike.. Surreal and Deamons relationship isnt at all the way that other reviewer who didnt like the book made it out to be.. not really..

It was a bitter.. sweet.. bitter again.. then sweet.. then gentle story.. and it brought the kindred back to life.. and i like it.. why? Cuz Jaenelle Satien.. if I understood the 'golden eyes' bit.. is a 'long lived' child.. she will live a few thousand years.. Jaenelle Angeline did not live long enough to really ground the kindred into society.. not all of the kindred.. Jaenelle Satien will live long enough to ground them firmly into society in many ways forcing all to change to fit everyone.

Jaenelle Satien is not a Queen (thank goodness).. so her loyalties/responsibilities will not be to many many many many people in a land she must rule and a circle.. instead she can devote her time to herself, her family.. her kindred.. and a life she chooses for herself.. not a path that the caste of Queen automatically chooses for one.

She has the time.. will.. patience.. and love.. to firmly ground landons, blood and kindred.. for more then a few generations.. in some ways.. she carries on what Jaenelle Angeline began.. Jaenelle Angeline cleansed a taint that needed clensed to help all begin anew.. but she didnt have the lifeline to carry it fully.. grounding all into a sense of change..

Jaenelle Satien will take up the mantle..

one question I do have.. if Jaenelle Satiens birth jewel is that of the Twilights Dawn

what is her final jewel going to be when she makes the offering as an adult?

 
 
 
Kerima: BJ - spiral into ebonykerima on March 5th, 2011 12:12 am (UTC)
Thank you for the spoilers. I haven't had a chance to read mine yet, but I will this weekend. Your's is the first review I've read that actually makes me want to read it. Everyone else has been pretty negative.

I look forward to it :) Thank you.
~just me~wndrdr on March 5th, 2011 02:16 am (UTC)
I am glad you like my review.

I went into the stories understanding they would most likely be a bit diff then I thought.. because of those negative reviews, then stepped outside of myself and into the characters.. and found.. the stories in their own rights, were good and showed different aspects that we may have 'known' but did not quite understand from the other books

I didn't go in thinking 'these are my characters and this is how i want them to be'.. I went in thinking.. 'these people are out of Anne Bishops mind and heart.. these are the characters she is choosing us to see.. through her words'..

that helped :)
Queen Midalah of Nebulaqueenmidalah on March 5th, 2011 02:54 am (UTC)
I never go into anyone's books thinking these are my characters. I do, however, think that when a certain characterization that's been established in other books and suddenly changes seems like... well I've been denoting it as a slap in the face to the readers but it also seems like it cheapened the love she wrote that Daemon had for Jaenelle.

But granted, this is all my opinion and nothing more. Each person is going to step away with a different feeling from the book based on their opinion and how they feel about the characters.

Personally, I greatly enjoyed Winsol Gifts and Shades of Honor. I did not enjoy the other two stories, but that was my own experience.
~just me~wndrdr on March 5th, 2011 05:33 am (UTC)
i understand where you are coming from, but i also see that she was in his life a drop of water in his life time.. but he loves her soo much yet she loved him enough to make him promise to 'move on'.

I know in our short life spans.. we are the same.. we want our significant other to.. 'move on'.

I dont think the characters changed much though, I mean.. they did what we do.. evolve. Only for them, their evolving should be more then ours.. they have longer to do it

i am rather envious :P I want their life time.. the long lived race ones.. though I would prefer my choco brown eyes to the standard eyes of the long lived races.. but there ya go

and again, just my opinion as well.. i enjoy all the stories, on the main books though, 1 and 2 was my favie.. 3 was my least favorite as well as tangled webs, but i did enjoy invisible ring and the two on cassidy..
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Queen Midalah of Nebulaqueenmidalah on March 7th, 2011 01:07 am (UTC)
I agree. And I do think that would be true. I think perhaps I would have had a different thought had High Lord's Daughter been separated and made into a full length book and given it more room to grow.

Though I also do admit that I am no fan of Surreal, except for when she was with Rainier. There was something about how she wrote Surreal with Rainier that made her tolerable for me.

I just never envisioned Daemon with Surreal. I can understand Jaenelle making Daemon promise he would live his life, but even making that promise I just couldn't see him finding someone new to love. Not after he waited so long for Jaenelle.

And even as I re-read the original trilogy, it just seems weird because I don't *see*, even between the lines, that Surreal has always been in love with Daemon. It just seems like a plot device to make that story okay.

And I still feel weird that Daemon wouldn't have been drinking a contraceptive brew as well, since he was taking other lovers. Just that whole thing of relying on the woman to be honest and not trap him with the love of a child.

I don't know. Like I said, it's all my personal opinion of things. I just personally did not like High Lord's Daughter or Family and probably will not read them again. Winsol Gifts and Shades of Honor, however, I will.

I figure that each of us are going to view the books differently and take away something different then someone else is. It's just how we interpret things. :)
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Queen Midalah of Nebulaqueenmidalah on March 7th, 2011 01:31 am (UTC)
I thought she made the mention that she'd been in love with Daemon since she was a little girl in the story, but if she FELL in love with him over the years, since they were long lived, I could see it.

And I didn't buy Lucivar's theory in HLD about Daemon stopping himself from conceiving with Jaenelle, not when it showed in Family that he had dreams of a black-haired, blue-eyed little girl. And I don't buy that Daemon didn't trust Jaenelle enough as a healer to heal so many (including Beron in Family) to not trust that she was fully healed even to the point of her having kids. So yeah, I so see that as a plot device.

Now... ultimately I know that she more or less said that yes Rainier was gay, but my personal opinion has always been that he is bisexual and just never found a *female* he could love. And obviously never a male. I always felt that there was a quiet love between Surreal and Rainier. Maybe never a sexual one, or one that never really surfaced because of... whatever reason. I mean, hell, they obviously lived together till Rainier died. I have no real issues with Rainier being gay, I never had, just my personal opinion.

Just like I never had any issue with the idea of Karla as a lesbian, I just don't think she was. I think she was asexual and just had no interest in it at all. With a man or a woman. Too much trauma.

And I really am not a fan of the child. I thought she was *too* much like Jaenelle being re-written, even with the black stallion, the unicorn and the Arcerian cat showing up. It just seemed too convenient and like Bishop was trying to re-write the idea of Jaenelle from the trilogy while having her be the blood daughter of her favorite female and favorite male. Granted, she has this right, they are her creations, but it left me less than happy as a fan. If she were to expand on Jaenelle Saetien and the Surreal/Daemon relationship... I don't know if I could bring myself to read those books.

Now anything before that, dealing with Saetan, Andulvar, etc. I'm so there!

Oh the other thing that left me going WTF? was Mephis being married and having kids. It halted me because even Peyton's love life was hinted at before this, but Mephis' life was *never* brought up, so I always just imagined that he never had the opportunity to be a husband and father before the first war in Kaeleer and his death. Now suddenly he had a wife and kids. Just seemed like another random plot device to throw in to explain away things. Especially since... I can't imagine Saetan *never* having met them. I would think he would have, even briefly, in Hell. Unless every. single. one. was sent to the final death RIGHT at the physical death like Luthvian was. Hell, even Lia, Jared, Thera and Blaed spent a little time in Hell before returning to the Darkness.

Perhaps I am reading too much into it, but that just shows how much the books affect me. LOL.
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Queen Midalah of Nebulaqueenmidalah on March 7th, 2011 02:12 am (UTC)
Well and Saetan wasn't even DEAD. He walked that fine line between the living and the dead. He was NOT demon dead. So that entire excuse was BS to me. Especially with how he came back to the living realms the way he did. Plus, I can't imagine that he was a Guardian by the time Mephis started a family. Since he had the boys in his prime. Okay so he had them what? Figure around Daemon and Lucivar's ages? A few centuries older? Since Mephis had been dead over 50,000 years. It was just a plot hole at this point.

I think I understand the whole thing with Dorothea and such. Even if Daemon had been able to tear her apart, and the same with Lucivar and Prythian, they had nothing else to live for. Plus they were raised in those courts, so it was all they knew.

And it was established over and over, that no matter how much he wanted to have the boys, father or no, he lived by Protocol. Which I think is a huge nod to history overall in such matters when things that make us choke on our feelings, we do because it is so deeply ingrained in us. And I don't think he knew they were going to be pleasure slaves, only that he was denied the paternity of his sons. And unfortunately, because of that denial, he had no right to do anything with them. That entire part of things I could understand.

However, the spell thing brought up in Shades of Honor about the Eyrien race being wiped out should Lucivar die. I was just re-reading the part in Heir to the Shadows about Lucivar taking Jaenelle hunting when dosed with safframate and Saetan not expecting his son to return. Had that happened, it would have triggered the spell and poof. No more Eyriens. That would have INCLUDED Prothvar and Andulvar too. Dead or not, they were still Eyrien. I don't think she entirely thought things through that she had already established in previous books.
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Queen Midalah of Nebulaqueenmidalah on March 7th, 2011 02:28 am (UTC)
Hehe. I'm sorry, that made me giggle.

Yeah it's odd, I mean I understand why Saetan did it, but I think the spell was modified in that if it was a violent death. IE. on the battlefield, not a natural-ish one. Though who the hell knows. Some of the stuff she's done has been great, but others have been insane plot devices that make no sense in the grand scheme.
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(no subject) - queenmidalah on March 7th, 2011 02:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - queenmidalah on March 7th, 2011 03:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - firesongvx on March 15th, 2011 06:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Kerima: BJ - Unsure but game smilekerima on March 6th, 2011 11:26 pm (UTC)
Read it, Loved it!!

I cried repeatedly through it although I have to say seeing Saetan go was far harder than I thought imaginable. But Surreal has always been a favorite of mine so I was quite thrilled with how things turned out. I don't think it's the end. I think there's plenty of opening for new beginnings as well :)
kumquatcookiekumquatcookie on March 5th, 2011 01:37 pm (UTC)
My feelings about the book matched yours, wndrdr. So I enjoyed it even though I bawled like a baby through the last story. My poor pups were so confused.
~just me~wndrdr on March 5th, 2011 09:28 pm (UTC)
wouldnt it be awesome if anne bishop did another set of short stories, not about black jewel chars, (humans) but.. those darn stories everyone is always reading to the pups? Sheltie saves the day.. et et et

I would love a couple of books filled with those stories.. and yes... when in the future i have grand kids.. i would read them to my grand kids
☆: Bleach; Hitsugaya ↬ ♡ →prowl on March 6th, 2011 02:51 am (UTC)
That would be so neat!!!
☆: TF; SS ↬ jet come at →prowl on March 6th, 2011 02:54 am (UTC)
Winsol Gifts I so agree. I loved the show of Daemon and Lucivar with the mother. It was just too sweet.

Shades of Honor and The High Lord’s Daughter you have great points I did not see and don't think I ever would have. So thank you for sharing them out! :D
~just me~wndrdr on March 6th, 2011 05:19 am (UTC)
a friend of mine said i have this unique way of looking at things, in a 'shrink' way heh, she keeps asking me when i am going to go back to school and become a shrink *rolls eyes*

but after rereading my review against others, i see i do see things in a different mental way.. except where kindred are concerned :P

but then again.. hrmm a psychiatrists job could be made easier if they had shelties by their side to help them..
☆: TF; SS & SF ↬ side & back →prowl on March 6th, 2011 07:25 pm (UTC)
If psychiatrists had shelties everyone would go till they knew more about the shelties. XD;
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Queen Midalah of Nebulaqueenmidalah on March 7th, 2011 01:35 am (UTC)
I thought her ruling again was great. It was obvious in Shalador's Lady that she had finally figured out that she was still everyone else's Queen, even if she was not officially Queen of Ebon Askavi. A Queen is a queen is a queen.

I adore Tersa. I always have. Personally, I think that she would have been a Red/Black-Jeweled Black Widow had she not been broken. Never mind me writing a fanfic broaching this...

The only reason I think she would have been that strong is because it was stated in the books that Dorothea would not have become the force she was in Terreille had Tersa survived her Virgin Night. Plus, look at the power she exhibits WITHOUT Jewels. And Daemon's strength comes from Father AND Mother. And Dorothea was a Red-Jeweled Priestess. So even if Tersa hadn't worn the Black or had the Red as a Birthright, I think she would have been strong enough to descend to the Gray or Ebon-gray if not the Black.

Edited at 2011-03-07 01:37 am (UTC)
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Queen Midalah of Nebulaqueenmidalah on March 7th, 2011 02:25 am (UTC)
It's done a number of ways. One way is rape by a darker-Jeweled male who can slip beneath the witch's inner most web.

Another way is causing the rape to be so violent that the witch panics and breaks her own inner web, which was one of the things that was worried about with Karla and why Lucivar had to see her through her Virgin Night and protect her from herself.

Another way is probably a gang bang, so many hitting the mind at the same time the body is being violated.

I think with Surreal she was raped, but came away intact because the guy was probably not at least a Green-jeweled male. Or that she fought the rape but the Self didn't try to flee the body.

Luthvian's Jewel of Rank was Red. When Hekatah attacked her and killed her, she tried to throw up a Red shield at the same time that Hekatah blasted her with the Red and it didn't form, but I think her Red was just that much darker than Hekatah's that she was able to keep her out of her mind, though she pounded against her mental shields as she fed. In the process she drained her Red Jewel so much that she became nothing but a whisper in the Darkness when the physical body died.

So it would make sense for Tersa to have potentially been a Green/Sapphire/Red as her Birthright and therefore being Gray/Ebon-gray/Black as her Jewel of Rank. Though I am guessing the possibility of her Birthright being no lower than Sapphire and potentially being at least Gray. If Dorothea had the full 3 rank descension, that means she had Opal as her Birthright with Red as her rank.

As for the fic, I'll totally have it in my journal when I write it.
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Queen Midalah of Nebulaqueenmidalah on March 7th, 2011 02:45 am (UTC)
Yeah and why Lucivar saw Karla through her Virgin Night since he was the only one that wore a Jewel darker than her besides Saetan. And while Chaosti wore the same as her, he was too new in his relationship with Gabrielle to effectively handle it.

My guess is that Tersa was violently raped and since Black Widows can be such unique individuals, she broke her inner web trying to flee.

I think it was established that no one, besides Jaenelle, had ever been given a Birthright darker than Red because they would never be able to make a full descent of three in power. This is why I figured that Tersa's Birthright would have been Red and her Jewel of Rank Black. It would explain why *Daemon's* Red/Black power was deeper and darker than Saetan's because he got it from both parents.
Lyss: Frostbringerfiresongvx on March 15th, 2011 06:39 pm (UTC)
I am so glad to see someone else who reacted to the book in a positive way! I really enjoyed Twilight's Dawn as well, and by that I do mean all four of the stories.

The world of the Blood has always been a bittersweet one, with the tales full of both tragedy and humor...that was one of the things I've always loved about these books. This collection displayed that quality particularly well, with laugh-out-loud scenes in some places and tearjerkers in others. I was quite pleasantly surprised by it because the amount of angry reviews had me not expecting much.

The whole concept of love between ridiculously long-lived races and short-lived ones is everywhere in fantasy, of course, but usually you get to the happily-ever-after and that is the end. The actual impact of the different lifespans is generally ignored in favor of the warm, fuzzy glow of the love story, so I have to give Anne Bishop props for having the balls to actually go there. I think that Surreal and Daemon make sense together, in more ways than one, and it's a bittersweet thing that they both understand she will never be able to truly take Jaenelle's place.

Honestly, there were really only two things about Twilight's Dawn that irritated me. The first is something that has been grating on my nerves since the original trilogy : every single time Daemon is seen/mentioned/shown/referred-to-in-passing we are beaten over the head with how Dangerous, Powerful, & Unspeakably Bad he is. We get it, he's a badass. Okay, he has lots and lots of Power. Check. But...we've just been Told this, repeatedly. We haven't seen him actually *do* something like obliterating the Zuulaman Islands from existence. Don't get me wrong, I like Daemon's character, but this constant harping on his badass potential gets old.

The other thing is pretty minor ; I just found it a little creepy that Daemon and Surreal decided to name their daughter Jaenelle, LOL. I understand the idea that it was supposed to be a loving tribute sort of thing, but still..."let's make sure that our daughter is a constant reminder of the dead wife that I can never truly replace in your heart! Yay!" I thought that was a little bizarre. ;)

But, otherwise, I really enjoyed the book! I feel that Anne Bishop stayed true to her vision even when she knew a lot of people weren't going to like it. That is pretty bold for any author, especially one as popular as she is. I can see why she wants to take a break from the series now, but I definitely wouldn't mind seeing more Black Jewels stories in the future...especially some sort of a prequel!
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